Watch me and Roth debate this controversial episode of LOST “Across The Sea”. It seems to be an episode that has divided LOST fans into the “loved it” and “hated it” camps. I fall in the “hated it” camp while Roth “loved it”. See how we debate each other on the merits and flaws of the episode. Don’t forget that it’s a two part review and part 2 is below.
Please let us know your thoughts on the episode!
- Dennis
Very polarizing episode, wasn't it? I'm definitely in the "loved it" camp. One of the coolest themes of LOST for me is this idea that we actually know much less about the world than we think we do and that those who often seem to have all the answers are actually as clueless as we are. As the series has unfolded, we've gradually moved up the ladder of individuals who we think will have a deeper understanding of what's going on, but in every case their information is incomplete and they're very much stabbing in the dark. First Locke, then Desmond, then Kelvin, then Ben, then Widmore, then the Dharma Initiative, then Richard, and now Jacob and MIB, have all turned out to be only going off what limited information they've been given. My bet is that even their "mother" really doesn't know if what she's been told is true or not. And I hate to say this, but I honestly doubt we'll ever meet someone with "all the answers" because the nature of the world is that those people simply don't exist. We're all just stabbing in the dark, trying to do what we think is best in the face of very limited information.
I don't think we'll ever find out for sure what the island is, what the "light" is at its center or what the "darkness" is it's containing. I think that in the finale the Losties will still be acting with uncertainty, not knowing for certain if they're even doing the right thing or playing for the right side. But such is the nature of life. Sure, it's unconventional and perhaps even unsatisfying for some, but it's truly a reflection of reality. Those looking for something more concrete in the end-game I fear will be sorely disappointed.
PS: Glad you guys finally disagree!!
It is cool to finally see Roth and Dennis go at it a little bit. But I felt a little let down, because Roth said she "loved" it and then spent most of the review talking about the things that weren't so good, essentially in agreement with Dennis. I only say that I was a "little" let down, though, because I loved the review otherwise. But when it first started, I was like, "ooooo, this is gonna get good!"
I need these two to have a steel-cage throwdown at some point!!!
I agree with Dennis for the most part–this episode was pretty awful on a lot of fronts. However, I agree with Roth in that I really liked seeing the early character development of Jacob and his brother.
When the final episode is finally over, I'm either going to like the ending or not. If I do like the ending, I'm just going to disregard this episode much like I disregard Nikki & Paolo. But if I don't like the ending, I will point to this episode as the monument of where Lost ran aground.
The thing that bugs the hell out of me about the "rules" is this: what governing entity is enforcing these rules? In order for the "You Can't Kill The Candidates Rule" to be a true rule, then there has to be some guiding force.
This is why science fiction is more satisfying than myth; the governing entity is physics. So if you tell me that a radioactive spiderbite is what morphed Peter Parker into Spider-Man, sure that might not be possible, but it's a much better explanation than telling me that The Giant Spider King Of The North visited Peter Parker in the night and told him, "You are the one, my child." That's shit that eight-year-olds make up.
The One Thing That I ABSOLUTELY Need Answered In Regards To Jacob And The Myth Story:
The 360 names written on the wheel at the lighthouse, and the subsequent scratching off of the names: How did those names come to be known to Jacob as "candidates," especially the candidates we know as the cast of Lost?
I'm going to disagree with Chuck just because he wrote a long response. I really liked the episode…5 words
I could have done it in 4 words too…if only one word, "liked" would do it for me 
Anyhow, lets find a 1,000,000 people request a spin off
Mac, you are hilarious, man.
I believe it depends on the person. Having everything spelled out for you is a very American thing. I'm a fan of actually having some things left to mystery. This mythology episode was more satisfying to me than anything happening on Fringe, or even the science fiction elements surrounding this show.
I also like the Nikki & Paulo episode. Sue me.
"Having everything spelled out for you is a very American thing."
That was kind of dickish.
Dickish, maybe. But am I wrong? Look at the way our films and television shows are structured versus other countries. Everything is dumbed down and needs to fit nicely under a bow.
*cough* Flashforward *cough*
I stopped watching FlashForward 5 or 6 episodes ago, it was getting really bad. Same with V.
Dennis
Only the best of the best make it from other countries to our shores. We have an inflated sense of international cinema because of this. Don't forget that the French worship Jerry Lewis. And have you ever seen an average Bollywood movie? Chinese TV? Mexican TV? Mainstream Spanish movies? Bad French romance? The worst of the BBC?
I will put the very best of the USA against the very best of anywhere else any day. And this from a guy whose favorite directors include Bergman, Godard, Leone, Kurosawa, Tykwer, Herzog, Truffaut, and Kieslowski.
Anyway, the reason that your comment was dickish was because it was a direct response to my saying that I want an answer to one very specific thing. You're telling me that you don't have ANYTHING that you need answered? That you'll be satisfied with zero answers?
I'm not saying their cinema is better, I'm ust saying they seem to have less of a strict adherence to having everything spelled out. In our horror movies or action film, the last 10-15 minutes are almost always exposition heavy so the audience can go "Ohhhh." I was at a film last night where a woman, who was there since before the credits, was asking her partner (who came in five minutes later) what was going on. Some audiences are just that dense. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but rarely is that kind of stuff done well.
I didn't mean to imply dickish-ness to your wanting a question answered. Of course I have questions I want answered, but I've been happy with the way they've been giving out answers so far. That's not to say that by finale's end I won't burn down ABC studios if they don't tell me why exactly the light is so important, but I've been enjoying this season. Hope that clarifies a bit.
I actually agree with both of you. Like Roth, I loved the episode because I love the mythology so much. But I understand and agree with all of Dennis concerns. However, disregarding them answering anything I just thought it was a really great episode. It was exactly what I wanted out of a MIB/Jacob episode. Those two guys sitting around, talking. But yes, even I would be upset if they didn't delve deeper into what this is all about.
I have to watch this episode again because watching CJ play MIB's mom was tough…she is a great actress but I'm use to seeing her on the West Wing so it was always in the back of my mind.
I think next week's preview could have been better
I never saw The West Wing, so I kept thinking of her as Juno's Mom, hahaha.
I think this episode was a C at best. I thought the acting was pretty bad except for Titus Welliver. I know everyone gives Janney a pass, but she wasn’t really that good. Did you feel anything other than puzzlement for all the crazy shit she did? And did you feel anything when Smokey stabs her? Mark Pellegrino must have got a note that said, “Past Jacob is a little slow, act confused the entire episode.” And kid Jacob and Smokey were terrible, especially Jacob.
The motivations for Jacob and Smokey, that apparently have determined the game they play for eternity, are incredibly weak. Smokey: I’m not
from here so must do everything possible to leave. Jacob: Fake Mommy said I have to protect this for some reason. This completely neuters the Jacob/Smokey mythos without making it relatable enough to actual human motivations.
I would have been completely fine not knowing how Smokey was made, who Adam and Eve were, etc. if only the show could give us a reason why the Island and the people on it actually matter. And if you aren’t going to do that, at least make it entertaining like they did in Ab Aeterno.
I have really enjoyed this season so far but this episode felt unnecessary. I don’t see any reason for them placing this so near to the end of the season, especially since it completely ends the momentum built up by the crazy events of last week.
I don't understand how it neuters the Jacob/Smokey mythos. It humanizes everything that MIB is fighting for and actually makes him MORE relatable because we've found out he wasn't inherently evil. I think at this point people's expectations are too high. Matrix Reloaded all over again.
"It humanizes everything that MIB is fighting for and actually makes him MORE relatable because we've found out he wasn't inherently evil."
I completely agree.
Matrix Reloaded was a piece of garbage. I don't think people think are putting it on that level, at least I hope not.
Dennis
I mean Matrix Reloaded in the sense of expectations being incredibly high vs. the finished, realized product. It'll never match expectations. Especially from a group that's been theorizing this intensely over a six year period.
My question is, who finished the wheel in the well? This episode seemed to answer a few questions directly, but opened up deeper ones. Though I now have accepted that not all will be answered, and will hope the flash sideways becomes the reality.
I agree. I think some stuff we're supposed to extract on our own (which seems like a copout), but it would be impossible to fill in all that stuff. Unless this entire season had started with Across The Sea and proceeded as a mythology dump. That could've been cool, and is what I think a lot of people were expecting.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume that whoever built the Taweret statute, as well as the Temple, are the group that found the donkey wheel and implemented it. Most likely, under the influence of MIB's machinations.
I'm probably one of the few people who didn't love or hate this episode. I was down the middle, mainly because the individual parts of this episode, I either loved or hated them, and those were about even.
The one scene that I think they should have included was the first conversation between Jacob and the Smoke Monster as his brother. That would have cleared up a lot of Jacob's intent in making the game and shown us his motivation for keeping Smokie/MIB on the island. I also really loved the scene where Smokie is "born", whether it made sense or not.
I like that they made Jacob seem human, because in past episode he's seemed like such a higher power, and when it comes down to it, he's just a whiny mama's boy who accepted this larger role and must live with it. I also think that the Smoke Monster is MIB's spirit, but the evil side of it, because like you said everything Smokie has said echoes the MIB's plans and childhood and emotions ("The Devil took my body")
But so much of it was also corny and predictable. The "light" just bothered me, because it seems like they're trying to wrap this up as easily as possible and gave a really vague metaphor for an ultimately impossible to understand concept. I definitely hope they revisit why the island is so important to humanity and even why this island as opposed to any other island.
I also found most of the episode to be pretty hokey and predictable. Vague ideas like the "light" and what it represents seems like some shit I could have written when I was in junior high or younger. I'm not saying you have to answer all the questions but if they do, they should execute them well.
Dennis
Was it me or were the two ladies (the mom and the pregnant lady) speaking spanish? How far back does that language go? I mean her name was Claudia, right? And when she named her first son Jacob, it really sounded like she said Jose. Okay, smoking a few joints before the show doesn't help.
It was Latin.
I'm with Dennis on this one things were shown but nothing much was gained. Hey theres the donkey but wait everyone gets killed before its installed and how come it wasnt cold down there? This episode irks me the more i think about it especially if you compare it to the Alperts origin episode. Well next week they should be back on point.
I think most likely Smokey manipulated future settlers on the island into completing the donkey wheel.
I really liked Richard's origin episode, it didn't reveal that much (in terms of "answers") but yet revealed a lot about his character and how he came to be on the island.
They should have done something more like that for this past episode.
Dennis
I hated the episode, just cause how vague it was. They made it clear right there that nothing would ever be explained. The only two characters who would know anything, know absolutely nothing. Pissed me off so bad. I was tempted to stop watching the show… But of course i'm going to finish. I just hope they don't give us a Sopranos ending.
"The only two characters who would know anything, know absolutely nothing."
I consider that genius and is one of the reasons I loved the episode so much.