Check out our 2 part review of the latest LOST episode “The Substitute”. We discuss Locke’s alternate timeline, the Cave with the names and numbers, the boy that the smoke monster saw, and more. Part 1 is above and Part 2 is below. Let us know what you think and your theories.
- Dennis
Best review yet, guys! You had some really cool observations and theories this week. The presence of Ben off the island definitely demonstrates that there's something more to the alternate timeline than meets the eye. To me it really proves that the alternate timeline could not be the result of the hydrogen bomb going off, but must be the result of something we haven't seen yet… maybe whatever happens in the season finale?
The other thing that became more apparent to me this week is that the alternate timeline exists not so much to show us how their lives turned out without crashing on the island, but more to show us how their lives turned out without Jacob's influence. The reason why their lives are so different (and seemingly better) in the alternate timeline is that Jacob wasn't there to steer them in certain directions at pivotal points in their lives. So without Jacob interfering to try to bring them to the island, it seems as though things haven't gone quite as badly for most of our Losties. Which now has me wondering more than ever if Jacob really isn't a bad guy after all.
Thanks Chadgeri! What's interesting is that if Jacob's interventions in the people's lives were so significant, and he affected Kate's life but she isn't listed as a candidate. And right now we don't know why, I hope they have a good explanation for this.
Dennis
Yeah, me too. He definitely touched Kate, as well. I've read speculation that she might be "108", the sum of all the numbers. Or maybe she was chosen simply to help manipulate Jack and Sawyer and isn't really important in any other way. Which would certainly be more consistent with her role on the show so far!
Thanks ChadGeri!
Yeah – I think one of the interesting things for me is that what is seemingly "good" or "bad" isn't necessarily clear yet.
Thanks Again!
Roth
Yeah, I really like that too. And to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if neither side turns out to be truly good or bad. After all, both sides have claimed to be the "good guys" and we all tend to judge our own actions less harshly than the actions of others. My guess is that both Jacob and MIB are ultimately just looking out for their own interests and are willing to use others to accomplish their goals, and I wonder if our Losties will need to free themselves from the influence of BOTH sides (take themselves out of the game, essentially) in order to be truly free of the island.
I use to think I knew a lot about this show but you guys know so much more (and you notice just about everything)…I don't think I have ever paid attention to the title of any of the episodes (the substitute).
I love the smoke monster you posted halfway through your post
I still don't like the alternate storyline…it does nothing for me. i would rather have time spent on closing the show.
Onward!
what? another 9 minutes…okay, you have a captive audience
The 2nd part is only 5 minutes for some reason YouTube used the runtime for the first part.
Dennis
one last thing…i kind of thought that the smoke monster guy was looking for someone to take his place so he can get off the island; it was all about finding the right candidate. Reminds me of one of the Indiana Jones movie, where Jones has to pick the cup of life (or something like that) and if he chooses the right one (which he did), he could replace the caretaker. Unfortunately, he didn't take him up on the offer and fast forward a couple of decades and they decide to make another Indiana Jones movie (which was awful).
Yeah, I said that about Sawyer in the 2nd part of the review. I think the Smoke Monster is conning Sawyer into taking his place.
Dennis
I agree, this episode was much better than the last.
A couple of things I noticed. Sawyer was the only other one who could see the child who, especially at first, reminded me of Jacob. When asked about the child, MIB/Locke said "What child?" which is technically true since it wasn't a child.
The 'child' reminded MIB/Locke that he could not 'kill him'. The Smoke Monster once encountered Locke in the forest and did not kill him. I don't think that the smoke monster can kill the candidates, that is one of the rules. Which is interesting since both times that a candidate has been killed involved Ben, Ben's father shot Sayid and Ben strangled Locke.
We may have not seen Kate's name on the ceiling in the cave, we were only shown 5 names and there are six numbers, but she was on the list from the guitar case. It is entirely possible that the MIB/Locke did not show Sawyer her name in case he still harbored feelings for her.
Because of a reveal in this episode, I now have a pretty good idea of what will happen in one of the future episodes. What happened on the island is a reflection of what is happening in the sideways. I am still not convinced it is real, let alone a future time line, though.
Anyway, loved the review, can hardly wait till next week!
Kevin
Hey Kevin!
Thanks for commenting – yes I wondered why Sawyer could see the child as well – and if perhaps the child was Jacob at first – but I don't think he is – I think he is a different entity and one with more authority – thoughts?
Thanks!
Roth
Hello Roth,
There are a couple of possibilities for who the child is.
If the child was a 'dead' Jacob, or a dead anyone for that matter, then being one of the candidates means you can see dead people, like Hurley and Jack. Miles talks to them, but doesn't see them and was just as surprised when Hurley tells him he can as F-Locke was when Sawyer says he can see the child.
There is another possibility regarding the child. The MIB-Locke says he experienced loss, maybe he experienced the death of his child and the 'island' sent a representation of his dead son to remind MIB-Locke of the rules. Apparitions have appeared to the candidates before, generally when they are needed to be put back on their path. And the 'more authority' feeling could be the power of having your own deceased child chastise you for not following the rules.
If the child was reminding MIB-Locke that he could not kill Sawyer, then the candidates have the same protection as the players. Could the 'players' have also been 'candidates'? And if so, is there really a way to stop being one beyond death? Think about those implications for awhile…..
I miscounted though, we did hear six names: Shepard, Kwon, Reyes, Locke, Ford and Jarrah. If it is just the final six the numbers represent, then Kate is not one of them.
We're still pretty far off from most of the answers we seek. And remember, it is science fiction, not fantasy. ; )
Kevin
Interesting theory about the child being F-Locke's dead son. That would be a new development and perhaps has an intriguing back story to it.
"Science Fiction", yeah… more like Supernatural Sci Fi mashup to me, hahaha
Dennis
Wow, you two brought up a bunch of cool theories that I hadn’t thought of before, and also brought little details to light that I missed, like that Locke had a picture of his dad on his desk. I never noticed that! LOVED the review, and enjoyed that you didn’t have to limit yourselves to just one video. I hate it when reviewers feel they need to cut themselves short for a too tight time constraint. Glad you got all your thoughts out there!
Please keep up the awesome work!
HI @Blacksymbiote!
Thanks! That is great to hear
!
Roth
I think the "split" happened in 1977. There's been nothing to say that Ben wasn't off the island (perhaps in Ann Arbor) at the time of the blast. If this is true, then that makes the Ben Linus of the alternate timeline the same Ben Linus that was shot by Sayid and has previously met Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer and Jin. And since both Jack and (especially) Hurley are now a part of Locke's life, this makes for an interesting possible meeting between Ben and these people who have not seemingly aged in 30 years.
Interesting, too: Fake-Locke yells to the kid on the island, "Don't tell me what I can't do!" These are the same words that Real-Locke yelled to the Walkabout guy when told he couldn't go on his trip.
Yes – the "Don't tell me what I can't do" denial of their imprisonment – Locke in his wheelchair – F-Locke on the Island was one of the things I liked most about this episode.
Thanks
!
Roth
So you think the "split" happened when the Losties first appeared in the past? Like one reality is where they traveled back in time (which ultimately led to them detonating the bomb), and the other reality is where they didn't. Interesting… that would work, I guess. Although technically the "split" might be in the 1950s when Faraday helped bury the H-bomb.
If you remember during LA X, they came off the plane and then went along the seafloor. We could see all the Dharma buildings there, so it had to have sunk in the 70's.
I'm not saying the island sank in the 1950s, I'm saying the two timelines may have technically split in the 1950s, since that may be the beginning of when things started to diverge between the two timelines. In other words, there may be one reality where Faraday went back and helped them hide the bomb (which eventually led to the bomb being detonated in 1977) and in the other timeline they never traveled back and Faraday never hid the bomb and it was never detonated in 1977. So I'm just saying that the divergence between the two timelines may have begun as early as the 1950s.
I think the split happens when Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid, travel back to the island and get sent to the 70's.
Dennis
Sorry, I just realized I had my dates mixed up. I was originally thinking that you were talking about the date Sawyer et al. first arrived with the DI, but that was 1974, not 77. So the problem with what you're saying is that when Juliet hit the bomb, we know that Ben was still hiding out with the Others on the island. He wasn't off-island at Ann Arbor or anywhere else.
the question. "who is good and who is evil?" and i have to say it doesn't look good for Jacob being a good guy. Just his name alone. Jacob. It has a few definitions and none of them are good: Supplanter,one who wrongfully or illegally seizes and holds the place of another. Heel or leg puller( literally where we get the term "pulling your leg".) Flocke even said last night while talking about the island "that's the joke". Also, he talks a lot about "free will" yet he's manipulated our losties every step of the way. He also has no qualms with having his people kill anyone who isn't on his list. He went Genocidal on dharma for christ's sake. I've come to the conclusion that it comes down to the basic lost theme of Man of Faith vs Man of Science. Jacob is the man of science conducting experiments on human behavior for millenia "it only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress", Progress = science. MIB stated "They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt.." he sounds like a man of faith who's been playing this game AND LOSING for so long he's given up faith in mankind. i believe this theory was echoed in FLocke went into John Locke mode yelling "Don't tell me what i can't do". he chose Locke because he saw himself in him. An all powerful being that has lost faith in mankind is a dangerous thing. In conclusion i think the scales with the rocks on them where especially important. when i saw that i didnt think of "Good and Evil" i saw black and white in balance which made me think of Yin Yang where good and evil are ambiguous. This Idea is reinforced with the introduction of Dogen. In history Dogen was a Zen Master. It's about opposing forces in general. so i say neither are good or bad it's all ambiguous and a matter of perspective.
It would be interesting if they went that way, it's definitely not "black and white" to who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. The one thing that is interesting to me is that the heiroglyphic of the smoke monster and an Egyptian creature that looks like Anubis (which is the god of afterlife) which I assume is supposed to represent Jacob. So I want to see how that is explained in the dynamic between the two.
Dennis
Hi im new to this website seems cool iv been looking for a spot thats not overrun with konw it alls cuz face it nobody really knows whats going on thats why its so fun to talk type or guess.Anyway your review of the substitute was good my only addition would be …….does anyone think somehow that the boy could be some version of aaron? if you recall kids are special on the island and didnt walt appear to locke? and when he did wasnt he 3 or 4 years older? just sayin could be connection this is lost! Thanks for the review and the forum look forward to more.
Hi stemma, thanks for checking out the website. Yeah its possible that the boy could have been Aaron, but I wonder what significance or explanation they will come up for the boy.
Yeah they used to have Walt pop out of nowhere once and awhile too, until they decided he no longer was going to be part of the show.
Dennis
The reason Ben was alive off the island, imo anyway, is that in 1977 he was a child, and i thought they were trying to do an evacuation before the bomb went off if I remember correctly. I'm guessing they got the women and children off the island before the blast, which also means Charlotte should be off the island as well.
Perhaps we will see Charlotte in the alternate timeline as well then. However there's no way we would see Faraday, as Eloise could not have escaped on the submarine.
Dennis