Hey guys, here is me and Roth’s review of James Cameron’s long anticipated Avatar. We discuss the visual FX, 3D, story, dialogue, direction, and acting of the movie. Let us know what you thought of the movie. Did it live up to your expectations?
- Dennis
I can't help but have mixed feelings about the technology that was used to create this movie, being an aspiring animator myself. It completely (or at least, nearly) eliminates the performance of the special effects/creature animator from the final product, trained performers in their own right. I mean, animators, just like actors, have to study the idiosyncrasies of the human body, body language and acting to push the limits of what is possible. Animators are basically actors that specialize in bringing to life the impossible.
Even when extensive motion capture was used with Andy Serkis in The Lord of the Rings and King Kong, Peter Jackson made it a point to not eliminate the performance of the character animators assigned to Gollum and Kong, and to use footage and MoCap from Serkis to drive and inspire the animator's performance.
The technology that made this film for me is kind of reminiscent to Rotoscoping, where live footage was traced to create 2d animation back in the day. The result was a stiff, lifeless hackjob that really left one wanting. While the footage I've seen of Avatar is not quite that bad, the performances of the digital actors lose a bit of life and spontaneity that comes with the performance of an actor AND an animator breathing life into a character.
Other than that, it looks like it'd be a fun ride. You don't go to a movie like Avatar and EXPECT Oscar-worthy performances. You're setting the movie up for failure, and its not entirely fair. Just go, and enjoy the friggin' movie.
I'm not sure what the animators roles were in the CG characters but I wonder if they did any touch up animation after the performance capture was done. Honestly I felt a lot of life in the CG characters in the movie, so I would say check it out and let me know what you think, you might be surprised. The trailers and footage online aren't a good representation of how it looks/feels on the big screen.
Dennis
I can understand your feelings – but I really think that this will simply open up a new door for expression. Films have always been collaborative – and will remain that way. I think this will serve everyone toward making a more dynamic and engaging product,
Thanks for your comments! Good to hear your perspective!
All The Best!
Roth
Still lots of an animator's hands in this one, similar to the effort put forth on Gollum or King Kong. The final acting was built on the mo-cap data and referenced directly from the actor's performance, but an animator is still driving the final performance. I think the key here is to separate the intent of someone like Zemeckis' mo-cap efforts versus what Cameron is aiming for here. Avatar's 3D is more like using digital techniques on actors to act as extremely sophisticated makeup & prosthetics versus replacing character animation.
How is the 3D? I'm still used to the old 3D with the red and blue glasses. That stuff sucks. I always feel like i'm seeing double, the colors look all jacked up, my eyes are watering constantly and then i can't see out my left eye for a good half hour or so.
I do look forward to this movie, but my past experiences have my hesitant of seeing it in 3d.
Honestly it took my eyes a good 45 minutes to adjust, but after that it was fine. That's when the immersion really began. The 3D is much more subtle than the gimmicky stuff you've seen/heard of before. It's used to make you feel part of the world.
I can't really compare it to the old school 3D, but I'm guessing you will have initial problems with it but then get used to it. Let me know what you think when you see it.
Dennis
Maybe it was just me, but I caught myself re-adjusting back from that 3D once the film was over. I know I saw a few doing the same.
Did you see it yet? I got a bit dizzy and sick feeling at first – but then my eyes adjusted. Let us know what you think when you see it!
Many Thanks!
Roth
Nice observation about the mo-cap system as being a sort of "avatar" for actors now. It did made me wonder if traditional acting as we know it before the sudden arrival of advanced mo-cap tech will have to change to suit it. I mean how well would the great actors like Daniel-Day Lewis and Clooney handle such a filmmaking technique. Unless they dismiss ever appearing in a film project that relies heavily on it (which could limit their choiced moving forward i nthe future).
Again, another great review from the two of you. It's become one of my filmgoing rituals to see if you two will do a review of a film together.
Thanks! As for the acting, I don't see the Academy accepting actors in performance capture roles as serious contenders, at least not for a long time. Also this type of movie wouldn't be coming out in droves any time soon either, the cost and the learning curve for it will keep filmmakers/studios away for the time being.
Dennis
I can see Spielberg and Jackson trying this new 3D and mo-cap system out (especially Jackson whose company helped in the mo-cap's dev). Fincher and Nolan are two directors I also think would be intrigued with this new system. I know Fincher was also mentioned as someone who was and still interested in doing a film adaptation of 'Rendezvous with Rama'.
'Avatar' and what Cameron has done really makes that dream project one-step closer to being a reality.
Thanks Arleigh!!!
Yeah I have to agree = this technology isn't going to be appropriate for every story, but when it is and for the stories that it is – so much more just became possible. Always good to hear from you!
All The Best!
Roth
Excellent takes Dennis n' Roth…
Avatar is an A+ for me, a 10 out of 10. Yes, the effects were exhilarating, but I also found myself caring for the individual characters, the culture of the Na'Vi and the world of Pandora. I liked the story quite a bit.
The whole "Dances With Wolves in Space" criticisms make too much of an obvious point. Do these people really demand true originality from all of their entertainment? I don't see why I should make it a prerequisite of any movie to be wholly original.
As any music fan can tell you, a work of art can be completely derivative and still be completely awesome.
Funny how people always like to point out how it's a story right out of 'Dances with Wolves'. While there's similarities there I like to think 'Avatar' has more in common with Malick's 'The New World'. Especially how both film really lingers on the scenes dealing with nature.
Does it live up to the hype? In a word – yes. I agree with Roth as a movie experience it was the best ever. The story is cliché for a reason – it is a classic tale that has been told many times before Dances with Wolves and will be told again many times more. There is nothing wrong with that. My disappointment is with the science fiction. It is what I expect from a big Hollywood movie but still with this new technology they CAN tell real science fiction. District 9 is still far better science fiction. In Avatar the aliens were too human both in looks and in culture. Other than the ability to literally commune with nature they were a Western idealization of Native Americans. This flaw was unfortunately highlighted by the utterly awesome job they did constructing the alien animals and plants. They did a magnificent job of creating a completely alien world with alien biology then added the alien people that didn’t really match. I totally forgive that flaw though. I even forgive the complete lack of human character development in all the supporting cast. There just wasn’t time for that anyway.
The movie was fantastic in so many ways.
I agree completely with you on the problem with the Navi culture being too human. They really were just like Native Americans. I think if you're going to create an alien culture, why not create something *truly* alien?
While the Na'Vi did look too culturally like human culture I wasn't bothered by it too much. I've grown up watching Star Trek and pretty much every culture in that scifi staple some sort of a carbon-copy of many kinds of human cultures.
One of the guests reviewers over at AICN broke down and graded the film on its science and brought up an interesting theory on why the Na'Vi were quite human-like: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440
Hey Elizabeth!
Great to hear from you!!!
You know I totally understand your feelings on the creation of the creatures. I think I am going to write a little article on why I think they may have been designed the way they were. I certainly don't want to speak for the filmmaker or his intentions – but why make something so obvious if it has no purpose? Yes, they look exactly like idealized version of Aboriginal and Native American humanoids. Yes, they are the "sane" one's and they sky people the "insane" – why is that?
Isn't it possible that James Cameron who spent 7 years doing deep sea exploration has a deep and passionate love for this planet? For our planet? And wants people to take a moment to consider – just consider – that our current way of life isn't the only option that ever was – or even is now. Of course it's very simple and sometimes we need that – sometimes Occums Razer really is the thing – The simplest answer is the truest one.
Speaking of simple – this is a very simplified condensation of my thoughts around this current debate. I like how much the flm has opened us for us to talk about – even in it's simplicity.
Thanks Again Elizabeth!
Roth
Okay, this is a "from part-way through review" comment, so, while I enjoyed Avatar as I watched it, and I agree with the argument that no story is original, I also noted several, things of Avatar's story that made me think of Ferngully, a movie I've had since I was a kid. In fact, it's almost the /exact/ same story. From the giant bulldozer, to the main relationship of the film, to the enviromental message, I was thinking Ferngully. So, while that does knock it a bit, that doesn't mean I still didn't /enjoy/ it. It certainly had great visuals. And I'm a guy who fawns over giant walking mech's (that's what makes me watch Matrix Revolutions =))
I just don't want one of my already little known childhood movie favorite even more overshadowed.
And now I'm finished watching the review.
Above I mentioned that the movie had an enviromental message. That's only one of several. there's obviously the 'War is bad' message and parallels to the middle East, you know I've heard that all our guys (US & Canada mostly, Canadian here) are over there for the oil, a resource, then the message that Humans have a tendancy to destroy what they don't understand, rather than learn. And also, a sort of, how history and the past should be treated with importance, and maybe even reverance, perhaps. This would certainly be a good film to disect in an english class essay.
And I think that the blandness of the humans, was deliberate. We were ment to be shown a different perspective that the one we normally see. How generic a film would this be if there had been a mojor story given to a pure human character, who never saw the Na'vi side of things? We'd probably have something like Starship Troopers again.
So, yeah, I was reminded of a movie from awhile ago, but that doesn't change the fact it's a deep movie, with great VFX. And if it must be labelled as a racist movie, it's surely racist against the Human steretype.
Yes it's about the human race and not about any specific ethnicity. To label it a "white guilt" is simply ignorant and wrong. Imperialism is not exclusive to white people, and to think so is narrow minded and doesn't take into account the many other cultures and ethnicities that killed and stole from other native countries and regions.
BTW I really like Starship Troopers, and I think they gave the human perspective on purpose. The way the movie is done with the propaganda commercials and "Earth" flag waving was intentional and also hilarious.
Dennis
I wonder if they'll ever have a best performance by a planet award
my friend dale (@dorkgeekus) made a comment that I thought was really on point. he expressed how he liked the that the obvious meaning of avatar were the na'vi hybrid bodies for the earthlings but the subtle meaning of the title is the actual na'vi being the avatars of pandora.
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